Beyond the Bonsai: Lessons in Leadership from Sam Sippl

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Sam Sippl

I had an iguana and a snake gerbils at one point in time. I was also always really into cars. Porsche Turbo, the 930 from the eighties. I was always the Holy Grail. I started snowboarding when I was maybe 11 or 12. We would take our snowboards to the local golf course. We would bring skateboarding ramp and put it in the middle of the hill and just launch ourselves off of that.

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Sam Sippl

My name is Sam Sippl.

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Daniëlle Keeven

When Sam isn't caring for animals, dreaming of fast cars or shredding the slopes, he's killing it in finance.

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Sam Sippl

I'm the CFO at Service Power. The CFO is not just the person that generates financial statements and manages an audit. Right. You really need to be involved in all parts of an organization. Accounting is kind of one of those interesting things where a lot of problem you think can be solved with like common sense. And very often it's not that.

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Daniëlle Keeven

Join us as we learn about the dynamic life of Sam Sippl.

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Daniëlle Keeven

My name is Daniel Keegan. Let's uncover the hidden stories of finance professionals as they navigate money, investment and growth. Let's look into the person behind the CFO title. Let's go beyond the budget before we get into the episode. If you enjoy the show, please leave a five star review of the podcast wherever you listen. It helps out the whole Paddle Studios team.

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Daniëlle Keeven

Tremendous analysis continue to uncover the hidden stories of CFOs.

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Daniëlle Keeven

First, we delve into sounds Childhood years spent in Saint Paul, Minnesota. We'll explore his love for sports and take a peek inside his childhood bedroom. A sanctuary of unique pets, classic car posters and a surprising story about professional wrestling.

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Sam Sippl

I grew up in Saint Paul, Minnesota, so in the Midwest, pretty standard upbringing there in the Midwest. If you haven't been there, the weather has a lot of different extremes. And so it's very cold in the winter. It's pretty warm and humid in the summertime. And so you get to experience all of the seasons and what those seasons entail.

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Sam Sippl

So I was pretty standard upbringing in terms of played a lot of sports, some so in the winter, played hockey in the summer, played a lot of baseball, was also an avid golfer growing up but yeah, pretty standard Midwest upbringing. It's a great place to to grow up. So I had a wood paneled bedroom. We did I grew up with an older brother and a younger sister and we all had our own bedrooms.

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Sam Sippl

We never shared bedrooms that that I can remember. I think we always had our own bedroom. I've always been a big animal lover, so growing up I had pets in my room. So I had an iguana, I had a snake. I think we had gerbils at one point in time. I was also always really into cars and so on.

00:02:46:13 - 00:03:09:14

Sam Sippl

The walls were classic car posters. I born in 79 and so, you know, my growing up, the kind of typical Porsche Turbo was on the wall, the Lamborghini couldn't wash. And so my brother and I were always really into cars. And so those were those were the posters on the wall. And then my yeah, my dad befriended some professional wrestlers and developed a business relationship and stuff.

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Sam Sippl

We were pretty avid WWF fans at the time, so I imagine there were some some posters on the wall for that and probably some some signed photographs from some of the professional wrestlers that we met growing up.

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Daniëlle Keeven

Next, we'll explore the formative framework of respect and discipline that underpinned sounds upbringing from maintaining good grades to being punctual for family dinner. His life was centered around order and diligence. We'll take a glimpse into the financial world that caught his interest early on.

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Sam Sippl

I can't say I ever really got in in very much trouble, but I do know that in terms of ensuring that you always had good grades and so it really never an issue growing up like school kind of came naturally to me. I never really had any major challenges getting through high school. And, you know, always had good grades.

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Sam Sippl

But when I got to college, those rules didn't change. And so my parents, you know, provided for my college education. But my dad had, you know, kind of three rules associated with that. It was one year to maintain a 3.0 GPA. You had to graduate in four years with no summer school. And I had to either study business or engineering.

00:04:22:07 - 00:04:41:11

Sam Sippl

And my freshman year, I did get into the business school going in and, you know, like a lot of kids leaving home, getting to school. The first time I did have, I think one class that I had a below a three yo. And so I stayed above that. But I think it was like my first, you know, calculus class or something like that.

00:04:41:11 - 00:04:56:01

Sam Sippl

I didn't perform well. And because it was a self-study where you had to do it yourself, and then you went into a room full of bank computers and had to take the exams on your own. And I remember my the first thing my dad did when we got home for break was to have us pull up the computer and show him our grades.

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Sam Sippl

And so I had a pretty stern conversation with me about that, that one grade. So although I'd met the requirement, there was one that fell below. And so, you know, that that was, you know, he really keyed me into the the importance of ensuring that I that I maintain that otherwise I would lose the privilege. Vicky Bag I didn't really have a specific like, I want to be a veterinarian or I want to be a pilot or an astronaut or something like that.

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Sam Sippl

I don't recall having any real drive towards anything, you know, one thing in particular, but I do know that I was always kind of drawn to the business world finance, and that's really the result of just, you know, my father and his career and he was from a young age would expose us to, you know, his job, expose us to investment.

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Sam Sippl

So, you know, he invested in a lot of small companies. And so, like my brother and I recall and he would have us, you know, save up our money from carrying golf bags in the summer at the end of the summer, we would take part of that and basically invest that alongside my dad and one of his small companies that he was investing in.

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Sam Sippl

And so from a young age, I was kind of always exposed to that. And I think that definitely influenced kind of my direction was something that created interest from a young age.

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Daniëlle Keeven

Listen next. As Sam revisits his high school days filled with sports, first experiences and an unprecedented sense of freedom that shaped his teenage years. Then you'll find out about Sam's long held dream, one that involves the iconic Porsche 911 and the thrilling journey he embarked on to finally call one his own.

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Sam Sippl

Definitely math, as it probably you would expect, was one of my my stronger subjects. Certainly in high school, even though I referenced that I had a hard time in my first calculus class after college. And then I've always enjoyed reading. And so certainly, you know, classes that revolved around literature, my high school had a had an interesting class called Spectrum, and it was basically three classes that covered three different subjects, boiled down into 2 hours a day.

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Sam Sippl

And it was largely focused on reading books and then having a lot of discussion around, you know, those books and the messages in those books. What you learned from those books. That was always something that I really enjoyed, I suppose. Fantastic. I mean, yeah, I had had a really good group of friends now, just I really I really enjoyed it, enjoyed playing sports at the time when growing up, we lived in the age before cell phones before.

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Sam Sippl

I think parenting got a lot more helicoptering and and strict from a young age. Like, you know, I started I was walking to school when I was in kindergarten, you know, with with one or both of my siblings in high school. And we took the bus to school starting freshman year, you know, bought a car my junior year and drove myself to school.

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Sam Sippl

And so it was a, you know, kind of a time where we had a lot of freedom. Right. Especially when we were able to start driving first girlfriends, that sort of thing. A lot of firsts in high school. And so, yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. I mean, I think about my my senior year and it was just fantastic.

00:07:58:23 - 00:08:21:23

Sam Sippl

Like I wouldn't change anything. So I definitely didn't have one of those experiences of high school where it was difficult or challenging or socially challenging and anything along those lines is a very positive experience for me. I had always dreamt of owning one that was like, you know, like I said earlier, that the cars on the wall, the Porsche Turbo, the the 930 from the eighties, I was always kind of like the Holy Grail for me.

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Sam Sippl

And although I don't know and of course a turbo because those are a little out of the range but that was always kind of the car that I gravitated towards to certainly from the classics. I grew up caddying at a golf course, which was a country club, and I remember one of the golfers there that I cared for often had had a Porsche.

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Sam Sippl

And I always, you know, walk out with him to put his clubs back in the car at the end of the round and always, you know, admired it. And so, yeah, it was it was a good day when I was able to co-write my first one.

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Daniëlle Keeven

Up next will delve into how sounds love for snowboarding steered him towards the mountains, even though he was given a roadmap to success, it seemed that the call of the great outdoors might have nudged him down a different path. You mentioned your parents provided you with a college education under the stipulation that you might maintain a 3.0 GPA or better study business or engineering and graduate in four years.

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Daniëlle Keeven

Had you not been given these guide rails, is there a different path you could have seen yourself going down? Perhaps professional wrestling?

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Sam Sippl

You know, honestly, even though they had the guide rail in terms of what we would that we had to basically study to get that support, I probably wouldn't have changed it because as I said earlier, it was really something that we were kind of always steered towards growing up. And so unless there was a path to be like a professional athlete, which really wasn't in the cards for me then having to proceed career, I think that was the direction that I probably would have likely gone in regardless, obviously, given the opportunity to have them support that made it that much easier.

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Sam Sippl

So it wasn't like a challenge in terms of the financial implications associated with earning a college degree. But one of the big reasons I chose C.U. was the mountains. I started snowboarding when I was I know in my when I was maybe 11 or 12. And so the mountains were a big draw. So growing up, we would we'd take our snowboards to the local golf course where they had they allowed kids to come in and sled, and we would bring a skateboarding ramp and put it in the middle of the hill and just launch ourselves off of that.

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Sam Sippl

And so I started snowboarding early and that was really one of the big draws. So I guess I went to some football games, but honestly, I was in the mountains most most weekends.

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Daniëlle Keeven

When a desire for change so packed his bags to fulfill his dream of becoming a surfer and to delve into more exciting opportunities. His journey reflects his ambition to embrace new experiences and to learn from diverse industries, proving that he is not one to shy away from taking the path less traveled.

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Sam Sippl

I had some friends out here visited a handful of times when I was in Denver and just kind of really liked the sea and love the weather. Wanted a change. You know, Colorado was exploding with growth. Having really enjoyed the mountains and snowboarding, it got so crowded and challenging to enjoy that that I kind of like lost some of the love for it just because it became such a difficult thing and kind of a pain that, you know, there's something looking for a change.

00:11:26:19 - 00:11:46:08

Sam Sippl

You know, I wanted to become had dreams of becoming a surfer and, you know, just enjoying the Southern California lifestyle and the clientele that I had in Denver was not terribly exciting when I you know, when I first started my career in public accounting, I had a lot of government work, a lot of not for profit work, which is really not something that I was drawn to.

00:11:46:08 - 00:12:04:05

Sam Sippl

And, you know, the clientele in the L.A. office, there is a lot of, you know, for profit businesses. Some of them were entertainment, but, you know, kind of had a better a better mix of clientele that I think I was I was more drawn to just in terms of the experience that you would gain and the exposure to those those different industries.

00:12:06:12 - 00:12:26:18

Daniëlle Keeven

Despite the daunting tasks and long working hours in public accounting, he saw it as a stepping stone toward his ultimate goal to be a CEO. Sam story is a testament to his relentless pursuit of personal and professional growth. And as you'll hear next, his aspiration to lead a company is still very much alive.

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Sam Sippl

At Grant Thornton, I did have a good interview when I was, you know, my senior year. The program that they had for the business school students was pretty strong in terms of helping you get interviews. They brought in all the organizations that were recruiting and that, you know, I know the brother. They went through the business school a couple of years before me, and his recommendation was just interview with everybody, like take every interview that you can possibly get just so you get the experience.

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Sam Sippl

And so I had probably ten interviews prior to the Grant Thornton interview with organizations like KURTZ Rent-A-Car. I mean, I was taking any anything that was out there, anybody that that would interview me. And so I got I had a good amount of experience and kind of learned, you know, in terms of the right answers, how to approach it, etc..

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Sam Sippl

And so when I had the interview with Grant or think that had a number of them under my belt prior to that, so I think I was pretty well polished.

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Daniëlle Keeven

And the first six years of your career were spent in public accounting. Are there any horror stories of your time in the early roles where you had to clean up a big mess.

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Sam Sippl

As a junior person in a in an audit? There's generally not a lot of messes that you're necessarily exposed to, but definitely like my early years in public accounting, it was still be kind of busy season, right, where you had periods of time where it was a little bit slower because audit season was kind of crammed within a certain period of time.

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Sam Sippl

And so, you know, it was typical like you were working 60 to 70 plus hours a week during that busy season. And so that was obviously very challenging when you're young to kind of I had good work experience, but all of a sudden to be thrown into those types of expectations in terms of working in those amount of hours, weekends, nights, and you know, you're young and you have a social life that was challenging even in the off season.

00:14:12:17 - 00:14:39:07

Sam Sippl

You know, you'd hear jokes about like foot in the phone book and like they had us doing that where you're learning, you know, your your keyboard so that you can add numbers very quickly. So it was kind of right before public accounting has changed quite a bit since I was a kid. But those were still kind of the days where it was like expectations that you grind really hard, You work an incredible amount of hours and when you're not working, you're still in the office and you're working and you're adding skills in terms of using the keyboard.

00:14:39:07 - 00:14:58:05

Sam Sippl

So, so kind of an old school, old school approach to it. Well, I always do. I wanted to transition out of public accounting that it was kind of a good stepping stone and that I wanted to be an operator but did take a slightly different path, ultimately becoming an operator. But at the end of the day, and I still have it, I have that the aspirations that I want to be a CEO.

00:14:58:16 - 00:15:07:09

Sam Sippl

And so that's really, really the goal. And that's kind of where I've always wanted to be in terms of becoming an operator and eventually being the in the CEO and running a company.

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Daniëlle Keeven

In our next segment, we delve deeper into the intricacies of accounting in different industry verticals. Sands speaks on the complexities you face in the technology sector, particularly the shift from On-premise to cloud solutions. He sheds light on the challenges of interpreting and applying accounting regulations in a rapidly evolving landscape.

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Sam Sippl

I mean, certainly technology, you know, I think there are some unique in terms of the complexities around managing the finances and accounting of a technology organization. You know, when I first got into SaaS, it was somewhat early in, you know, the transition from the perpetual license model, the on premise model to the cloud model, the first CFO role that I had, we actually established our own cloud and started selling cloud services.

00:16:04:19 - 00:16:21:03

Sam Sippl

So that kind of gives you an idea of how early it was kind of in that progression towards the cloud. So we were we were an on prem solution, but we started selling cloud services where we would take our on prem solution, put it in our own cloud, and then basically provide a VPN for those customers that chose that option.

00:16:21:03 - 00:16:46:08

Sam Sippl

And so there's definitely some complexities. Like accounting is kind of one of those interesting things where a lot of problems you think can be solved with like common sense. Like this is what makes the most sense in terms of how we should account for this. And very often it's not that, it's not the common sense approach because, you know, accounting regulations need to take into consideration so many different industries, you know, and the solutions that they have.

00:16:46:08 - 00:17:04:22

Sam Sippl

And you need to have a uniform accounting guidance for that. And so a lot of times there's a lot of nuance in terms of how certain businesses account for things based on the industry that they're in and the the nuance of their business in terms of how you recognize revenue or how you account for certain costs associated with those those revenues.

00:17:04:22 - 00:17:27:18

Sam Sippl

And so and because it was somewhat early in terms of the cloud migration, there wasn't specific guidance on it. So you were having to interpret guidance that was not necessarily written for cloud and for it for that particular industry. And so you had to kind of come up with your own model, so to speak, or interpret the guidance that was available and apply it to your business.

00:17:27:18 - 00:17:48:01

Sam Sippl

You know, I recall my first ad at Merv, the health care company, you know, developing my revenue recognition memorandum. And I spent quite a bit of time just like going through the guidance and interpreting the guidance and developing our approach to it and then having to, you know, go through that with our audit group and get them to sign off on it and proceed accordingly.

00:17:48:01 - 00:18:01:03

Daniëlle Keeven

Yeah. I was just going to ask you that. How did you manage your audit? Because it being such a new space, it's quite challenging. They don't know exactly what they're auditing, but they're not going to sign off last hour for confidence. So what was that process like for.

00:18:01:03 - 00:18:22:23

Sam Sippl

You where you mentioned confidence? Right. And so it's basically giving them confidence that ology that you've developed is sound and like, you know, having been in audit and then being an operator and being audited, a lot of it comes down to your memorandum, right. And what you developed in terms of this is our approach. This is why here's a support and here's our interpretation.

00:18:22:23 - 00:18:47:17

Sam Sippl

And so long as that is sound, you know, generally auditors will kind of work with you on that and, you know, kind of get on your side, so to speak, or support that approach so long as that you've developed a very strong foundation for it using the guidance. And so that the memorandum item is an incredibly powerful tool with auditors, because if you just go in and you don't have that, then generally speaking you're going to have a much more difficult time.

00:18:47:17 - 00:18:59:15

Sam Sippl

And so certainly one of the benefits of being an auditor before an operator is that I had experienced the other side of it and kind of knowing what generally works and in in terms of getting your audit firm comfortable with your approach.

00:18:59:16 - 00:19:11:04

Daniëlle Keeven

And how did you manage the undefined elements such as like the taxable component? Because if the revenue definitions were unclear, I'm sure the tax environment was as well or was there like no tax at a time for the industry?

00:19:11:05 - 00:19:26:15

Sam Sippl

So I'm not a tax expert. Right. And so when you go into public accounting, you kind of choose your direction. You either go the audit route or you go the tax route. And so I did pass this. I am a CPA by trade, did well enough on the tax exam to pass it, but I went the audit route.

00:19:26:18 - 00:19:48:01

Sam Sippl

I am not a tax expert. And so that's the one area of accounting and finance that I always leverage our third party providers on is from a taxation perspective, because those books are completely different and not completely different. There's a lot of differences in terms of the books that you maintain for reporting taxes versus the books that you maintain for reporting your results to your your constituents.

00:19:49:20 - 00:20:11:10

Daniëlle Keeven

And next, Sam shares his insights on the evolution of the CFO role and how it transcends just managing financial statements and audits. He elaborates on the rewarding nature of adding value outside of the finance organization. What is involved in his sales through the creation of a deal desk? Here is what that is. Listen, on.

00:20:15:18 - 00:20:43:03

Sam Sippl

What I find most rewarding is providing value outside of just the accounting and finance organization I think is, you know, the CFO role has changed quite a bit over the years where the CFO is not just the person that generates financial statements and manages an audit, right. At least good CFOs and CFOs that are sought after. And so I think the CFO role has changed to the point where you really need to be involved in all parts of an organization.

00:20:43:03 - 00:21:07:21

Sam Sippl

And so for me, when I get where I like to participate quite a bit is in sales. Every company that I've been at, I create what's called a deal desk, but it's not a unique thing to me, but it's a process that doesn't exist in all companies. And so the deal this is basically my way of getting myself involved in in sales and sales pursuits, largely associated with new prospects or expansions that you have with existing customers.

00:21:07:21 - 00:21:32:12

Sam Sippl

And so I really enjoyed being a part of other parts of the organization and adding value. I'm a big believer that you need to manage with analytics and analytics. A lot of the analytics generally come out of the finance organization because you have access to all of the data. And so being able to leverage the data and the information that we have in finance, developing the analytics and helping the organization, architect the organization.

00:21:32:12 - 00:22:05:15

Sam Sippl

And then also how are you the organization is running by using that data to have really the knowledge on what, you know, good decisions are. And that kind of goes back to the deal desk as well in terms of, you know, how are we going to structure an arrangement both in terms of commercial, also understanding any, any of the legal issues around the type of structure in terms of the length of the contract provisions around termination, that sort of thing, so that you're driving the most value out of that arrangement because at in the finance seat, I understand, you know, what type of arrangement is going to create the most enterprise value.

00:22:05:15 - 00:22:24:22

Sam Sippl

Somebody in sales necessarily wouldn't know that. And they're, you know, generally speaking, after one thing, which is their commission dollars. And so it's important that you have, you know, somebody in finance that is ensuring that the way that you're structuring those arrangements is going to have the biggest benefit, not just to the sales organization but to the company as a whole.

00:22:24:22 - 00:22:43:10

Sam Sippl

And so for me, just being involved outside of finance kind of is the most rewarding thing for me because, you know, at the end of the day, debits and credit or debit and credits being part of something that is a little more creative in terms of developing deal structures and ultimately, you know, being awarded new businesses is very rewarding.

00:22:43:15 - 00:22:52:09

Daniëlle Keeven

You've been in different type of industries. So what does the Anatomy of a Successful Deal desk look like? Like what are the foundational cornerstones?

00:22:52:09 - 00:23:31:07

Sam Sippl

Like a lot of things, I think it's really important to allow the individual that is ultimately responsible. So with the Deal desk, an individual is the sales reps of the account executive. So you want to empower the account executive to be successful in terms of their sales pursuit. And so a deal desk is not a micromanagement tool, it's a tool to help ensure, like I said earlier, that you get the best outcome, the way that we approach it or that I approach it is that you're allowing the account executive to kind of manage the process, manage the deal, but at the same time you're providing really support.

00:23:31:07 - 00:23:49:18

Sam Sippl

I don't want to call it oversight, even though there is oversight. And to the extent that something isn't aligned with, you know, what I feel is best for the organization in terms of the outcome. But you provide that individual with the autonomy so that at the end of the day, they're the one that owns it. Because if they don't feel like they own it, they're not going to drive it as hard to to completion.

00:23:49:18 - 00:24:25:10

Sam Sippl

But really just providing the guardrails, so to speak, in terms of this is the type of arrangement that is going to be the most beneficial to our organization and having them understand that and also embrace that. And a lot of that comes down to like incentive compensation, how you structure and set up compensation. And that's something that you do obviously before you get into the deal desk and so that you're incentivizing certain behaviors in terms of how they manage opportunities so that the outcome is not only best for the organization, but ultimately is is best for them in terms of a compensation perspective, it.

00:24:27:10 - 00:24:41:20

Daniëlle Keeven

Sounds like goes beyond the budget in some interesting ways. His love for both one side trees and fast cars help him take a step back from work. Join us as we understand how Sam blends precision, unpredictability and patience in his life outside of work.

00:24:43:15 - 00:24:59:19

Sam Sippl

And, you know, I think it's one of the things that you have to do, right, is find time for yourself and for your hobbies. Because if all you do is focus on work, I think you lose sight of a lot of things. You just got to carve out time. So like I said, when we started, my kids wake up super early, so I'm up super early.

00:24:59:19 - 00:25:19:21

Sam Sippl

And so one time in the morning and fun time on the weekends was I trees, actually. People always ask me like, Are you always out there with this clippers and trimming them and everything like that. And so like, not really like there's only a few times of the year that you're really engaging kind of with your trees. That's really where you kind of learn the patience because you want to be doing something right.

00:25:19:21 - 00:25:36:09

Sam Sippl

But at the end of the day, you're really just kind of waiting for that time of the year to to really engage with them. So there's not a lot to do outside of spraying them down with That goes on every couple of days. But I do enjoy watching the process and watching them grow and develop. And there's bonsai is definitely an art, right?

00:25:36:09 - 00:25:55:17

Sam Sippl

And you see a beautiful bonsai tree. It's not going to stay that way and it's not like a picture you put on the wall or painting and it's always green, it's always changing. And so you always need to be kind of working within the direction that it's going and you can't control it. You try to as much as you can, but at the end of the day, it's going to do what it's going to do and then you need to operate accordingly.

00:25:55:17 - 00:26:14:01

Sam Sippl

You know, I honestly have never really thought about it in terms of kind of the difference in terms of the hobby. I think working on the cars is similar to the bones. I in terms of, you know, you need to be very conscious of what you're doing. You need to be you need to take your time, you need to have the right tools.

00:26:14:01 - 00:26:43:09

Sam Sippl

But certainly driving and it's interesting because, you know, you can take a drive and it can be very relaxing, just as relaxed and as sit in your garden, or you can take your drive and have it be a little bit more exhilarating. And so maybe the courses offer kind of more in terms of what you can get out of it kind of on the two spectrums that you articulated versus, you know, bonsai, which is just more of a much more of a grounding kind of Zen is probably a bad word to use, but, you know, kind of get that state of mind where you're more calm.

00:26:43:09 - 00:26:46:00

Sam Sippl

And I think you can get kind of both out of the out of the Porsches.

00:26:48:09 - 00:27:03:08

Daniëlle Keeven

In the upcoming section, Sam highlights the need for enabling others to become confident decision makers in their own right. It isn't about reckless confidence, but rather about judiciously learning to take risks and make decisions that drive things forward.

00:27:06:18 - 00:27:43:19

Sam Sippl

So I think, you know, communication is incredibly important, written communication. So always working on and developing your written communication skills is incredibly important. Email is obviously such a very powerful tool. I think people spend half their days not more just on email. And so being an effective communicator is really important when I think what separates kind of lead people that become leaders from people that stay in a controller ship role or something like that is somebody that is ultimately becomes a confident decision maker, somebody that's always seeking the approval or needs somebody to sign off on something, you know, whether it be something big or something small, you know, they're going to have a hard

00:27:43:19 - 00:28:12:14

Sam Sippl

time kind of getting to that next role. And so I think empowering yourself to become a confident decision maker, obviously don't do it in situations where it could be potentially fatal for your career, but you need to develop the ability to make decisions and not need somebody to sign off on absolutely everything. And so, you know, the way that I try to empower my people is give them the autonomy to kind of run their own business so that they can become a decision maker and confident in their ability to make decisions.

00:28:12:14 - 00:28:30:20

Sam Sippl

At the same time, you obviously need to be able to allow everybody else to participate in that, but you need to be able to drive things forward. And so I think, you know, written communication, communication, relationships, super important. But in order to just kind of take that next step to get yourself into a leadership position is you need to be me.

00:28:30:20 - 00:28:34:12

Sam Sippl

You need to be somebody that can be looked at to provide a solution and make decisions.

00:28:38:00 - 00:29:01:05

Daniëlle Keeven

Special thanks to Sam Sippel for being on the show. You can find him on LinkedIn if you'd like to see Thanks yourself. Know anyone who would be great for the show? Send us an email to our senior show producer Ben.Hillman@Paddle.com. Also, please leave a five star review if you enjoyed the podcast. We'll see you next time on Beyond the Budget, a podcast from Paddle Studios dedicated to helping you build better SaaS.