The R.A.P. Method: Tanya Alvarez's Recipe to Mastering Productivity

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Ben Hillman

Picture the solitary runner tracing the pre-dawn streets, their breath visible in the cool air sneakers, thumping a steady rhythm against the pavement. This runner knows the challenge of self-motivation, the ease of skipping a morning run when the bed is warm and the world is silent when they run alongside a partner. Their solo journey transforms. Each step is witnessed, each mile accounted for.

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Ben Hillman

They push each other to stride faster, endure longer, and to not skip the days when lethargy beckons and accountability, Buddy and running becomes the silent cheerleader, the witness to perseverance, the guardian of commitment and the world to be to be SaaSt. The road to success is equally challenging, lined with the potential for missteps and the temptation to ease off the pace of innovation and growth.

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Ben Hillman

Here, too, accountability holds a mirror to our actions, turning individual sprints into a relay race where the baton of responsibility is passed within teams, ensuring that every feature release and customer interaction is not just completed but carried forward with diligence and purpose. Accountability ensures that promises to customers are not just made, but met with the punctuality and reliability of a runner's steady cadence.

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Ben Hillman

Enter Tanya Alvarez, the founder of Owners Up. She's an accountability expert who coaches SaaS entrepreneurs to not just run the race but to excel with the endurance and strategy of marathoners. With Tanya's guidance, entrepreneurs learn to set the pace for their businesses growth, to push through the wall of operational challenges, and to sprint towards their KPIs with unwavering commitment.

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Ben Hillman

She is the accountability buddy every SaaS leader needs turning solo ventures into team triumphs. In today's episode, we'll lace up with Tanya to explore the transformative power of accountability in driving SaaS. Success will delve into how discipline, goal setting, peer support and the rap method can turn individual potential into collective achievement. Tune in as we discover how to turn the solitary run of entrepreneurship into a victory lap with Tanya Alvarez by your side.

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Ben Hillman

From Paddle, It's Protect the Hustle, where we expose the truth behind the strategy and tactics of B2B SaaS growth to make you an outstanding operator. I'm Ben Hillman, and on today's episode, Tanya Alvarez speaks to panels Andrew DAVIES about accountability. After you finish the episode, check out the Shownotes for a field guide from today's episode. Then, while you're leaving your five star review of the podcast, tell us what resonated most about our guests advice.

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Andrew Davies

Welcome to the Hustle. Why don't you just give me a bit of background about yourself, about your business, and yeah, let's, let's dive right in.

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Tanya Alvarez

Yeah, I started my first company at 25, grew to a million within the first year and traveled during that time to over 42 countries and continued growing its rants and marathons and then sold it and then invested in others. And the thing I wish I had, I built and it's called owners up, and it basically came about because I was running, I was training for the Boston Marathon and here I was still running in a group.

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Tanya Alvarez

I signed up for a coach and a team of people and then I'm running. I'm like, What the heck, Why do I have this for my own business? Piers And are like, ready to take to a next level so you can bounce ideas off of, you know, talk about some of the struggles you're dealing with a coach that you actually report to who knows all your stats and you have to report and then just have frequency of that meeting, that momentum and now rhythm.

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Tanya Alvarez

And that's what owners up is.

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Andrew Davies

I remember that when I was Billy Ed back in the day, I had this group of people who used to go for a dinner once every month or two other the founders around our kind of stage. It was my replacement therapy, just suddenly realizing that what you paid to be on the Komodo when you looked beyond the curtains, everyone else was facing a bunch of the same challenges that I was, and some of them had answers to those challenges.

00:03:45:11 - 00:03:59:13

Andrew Davies

That was super interesting for me and it was a reason why I actively went and built a network of people I could call on in those situations. So torture's a little bit more about owners up there and how you, you know, attract these people, why they come to you and also how you group them together. That's a really interesting model he has.

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Tanya Alvarez

So one of the things that we're like we wanted to use get them to that, use that frequency so that once in a month dinner is great. But as you know, every day there's always as some sort of fire or something that you're like, I wish I could just like get some feedback immediately. That's where you had that coach, just in case your peers aren't there.

00:04:17:04 - 00:04:34:05

Tanya Alvarez

So we structure to the groups in groups of five, and we do it based on what the level and then on their industry. We don't want to put everybody in the same industry. We realize you find so much like you're like, Oh, in this industry they do this. Maybe I can do it in my industry. And when you surround yourself with everybody, you start thinking the same way.

00:04:34:06 - 00:04:43:17

Tanya Alvarez

There's no innovation, right? And then you realize, Oh, I, I could be doing this, but everybody else is doing it. It's just it gives you a whole new perspective on where to take your company.

00:04:43:17 - 00:05:09:15

Andrew Davies

I know there's lots of content you put out there. I know your LinkedIn posts are one of the things I really enjoyed reading a little Small to my heart was one of the ways of describing yourself is that you're a workaholic too. Guilt free. You've gone from being a workaholic to being a guilt free parent. Before we dive into OTAs up in the business, I would love to hear a bit more about the personal journey there because it's something I talk about with working parents all the time and a challenge I have with my nine year old, an 11 year old.

00:05:09:16 - 00:05:16:07

Andrew Davies

That's a powerful statement, a powerful kind of confession from workaholic to guilt free period. Can you unpack that a little bit more for me and how it plays into this journey?

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Tanya Alvarez

When I started my first company, of course, I was able to work crazy hours and that was I have to admit, I was driven by ego. At that point. I wanted to prove something. I had a chip on my shoulder. Then I had two little ones. I right now about one and a half year old and three and a half year old.

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Tanya Alvarez

And the moment that my son was born, my life and what I thought of just he's I no longer wanted to brood. I wanted to build a legacy because at the end of the day, we all die. No one gets out of here without dying. Right. And who's really going to remember you? It's your children, your business. We still talk about Steve Jobs, but is it as present, you know, to me or Michael Jackson?

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Tanya Alvarez

No. It's your kids who carry things on. And I was like, how do I make sure that I'm super present when I'm with my kids? And it's not about the time. It's literally about being present in that energy. And that shifted everything and then the constraints. So when you first start a business, you just have so much time.

00:06:06:18 - 00:06:24:09

Tanya Alvarez

You go from like, no structure, right? And try to create your own structure. And even if you have employees a team, you still can actually move the deadlines. But then when you start having constraints on how many hours you want to work, where you want to achieve what your priorities are, that's when the freedom happens and that's when you can be more present and just move faster.

00:06:24:09 - 00:06:34:14

Andrew Davies

So talk to me about how you actually do that yourself in terms of creating those boundaries. Is it phone or phone in the cupboard? Is it you're just a self-discipline for not looking, you know, how do you maintain those boundaries?

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Tanya Alvarez

So we did teach our three year old early on that if he ever saw me and my husband on the phone come to us and just say, you need to be on the phone. And then he added, Which was clever meeting GQ, I love you. And I was like, Whoa, that's really good. But we both had like we just put our phone on their silence and then we all we both have Apple Watch and then we just have that just in case that's it.

00:06:57:21 - 00:07:12:08

Tanya Alvarez

But it is hard because you want to take pictures of them. So then all of a sudden you pick up the phone or the video, then you're that phone's right there and that easy addiction, just good billy clubs, good tech check something really quickly, then you're in that spiral. So that's why we had our kids kind of check on us.

00:07:12:12 - 00:07:24:23

Andrew Davies

So much of what you talk about is about focus. You talk about the focus multiplier. And I know you've got some awesome frameworks here, so talk to me about the focus multiplier. Talk to me about your process here, how it came to be and how it helps founders to make sure they're getting more out of their day.

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Tanya Alvarez

So it started, you know, I was running in high school and college as a collegiate athlete and then back then before technology and a little bit older. Back then you had to write down what you actually like when you ran, how you felt when you eat, because all that information was actually what helped you move and go faster.

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Tanya Alvarez

So it's not usually the time. Sometimes you have to go like, Oh, I was running in, I don't know, like a five minute mile. Well, how do I break that down? How can I consistently do it? Or what stopped me from doing something right? So when you start realizing sometimes it's a time the day that you're training, sometimes it's the things that you're eating.

00:07:57:02 - 00:08:10:21

Tanya Alvarez

But entrepreneurs, what ends up happening is like at the end of the day, they're either overwhelmed and they're like, Well, I'm so glad this day is over. But they didn't actually realize where they spent their day or they could be at that time. Or they're like, I didn't get anything accomplished. And then they write down what they got.

00:08:10:21 - 00:08:35:03

Tanya Alvarez

But then they're like, Oh, so there's activities entering you. So how do you keep this focus? It's called a wrap. Our app, our is for review group. You you're freaking day. What the heck did you get done Celebrate it All right And then a assess one through five what is makes it a five and then once you get that information on the five reverse engineer, it maybe was like you're on sales calls and maybe it was you like all of a sudden did amazing podcast.

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Tanya Alvarez

I don't know what it is just reverse engineer images five and then P is prioritized, right? The three things that if you only had 3 hours to get it done, those are the three things you would get that.

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Andrew Davies

There's bits of this that I've done, but I've never done in a formal process like this. Ended up calling my to do list the things that move the needle because there's so many things that don't move the needle in my day. And I try to restrict 2 to 3 things a day. That's interesting. I want to learn more about that.

00:08:57:05 - 00:09:17:07

Andrew Davies

And also I remember I learned from pattern recognition when someone advised me to do a happiness journal and I was doing that every day for 30 days and I was understanding what things led to me having a genuinely positive day versus not a positive day. And it was the kind of people I was with, the kind of topics we were talking about being external to the business where I could learn things other contexts rather than internally.

00:09:17:07 - 00:09:31:16

Andrew Davies

But what are you talking about? This this process maybe is just I'm a scatterbrain, I think. How can I keep that up day after day? So is this something you've done yourself for days and weeks and months and years and and the people you work with, are they doing this every single day? And how are they maintaining that rhythm for months and months and months?

00:09:31:16 - 00:09:51:10

Tanya Alvarez

Basically, we have it. We actually have them submit it into our software and then it's shared within the group. And that's how we're able to not only you're getting the awareness as an entrepreneur writing it down, and then the coach is also getting that awareness. So you're incentivized to actually write it because they can see blind spots and then they're like, Hey, it looks like you're in like about to head out to burnout.

00:09:51:10 - 00:10:06:02

Tanya Alvarez

How can I help? Or here's some resources. And then also it's the applause when you're having a great day. So it's kind of like we're using all what peers momentum, right? So you get acknowledgment. I'm writing, you get help, and then you get the awareness for yourself. And by the way, it is really hard to do it on your own.

00:10:06:02 - 00:10:11:02

Tanya Alvarez

I would really highly recommend that you texted to somebody else to keep it going.

00:10:11:05 - 00:10:19:22

Andrew Davies

Do you think that there's a certain type of personality, though, warm to this or able to do it for those long periods? Or do you think it's something that everybody should build as a muscle within their day?

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Tanya Alvarez

I think everyone should build it. I don't think it's an easy one. I think there's enough studies, kind of like the gratitude, like three things that make me like I'm grateful for super hard to do on my own. So in order there's like one little hack, I sent it to my sisters and close friends so they send it back to me.

00:10:34:06 - 00:10:46:22

Tanya Alvarez

So now we're in touch with everybody, right? Everybody knows. And then now we're thinking about different things to be grateful for. And then we start a day like that. So it's different hacks. You can make this work for you. You just got to figure out for the peers that you want to do this with.

00:10:47:01 - 00:10:58:07

Andrew Davies

And when people are filling up their wrap, when you're filling out yours, what's the normal blend between work and home or is there kind of no division between those? It's just, you know, however you're experiencing life at that stage.

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Tanya Alvarez

I would say however you're experiencing, I think it is a mix. Usually when people are working late, they bring up the more of like, Oh, shoot my significant others upset on me, or I'm feeling like burnt out. I'm working on weekends, right? So you can see that pattern. And then when they're like the writing and barely working as hard, they're super happy and you can just it's like fives everywhere.

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Tanya Alvarez

So any time they're kind of in everyone, no matter how awesome you are in your role as an entrepreneur, you're going to go through that rollercoaster. So the cool thing is having the data to show you that it's just you on this low, you're going on the high. That's the best thing. It's going to swing up. You got the data.

00:11:31:19 - 00:11:50:14

Andrew Davies

Have you ever been through a process of having to persuade someone that this is something they should do, or do you just not engage with people who aren't persuaded? I'm really interested in whether there's a particular thinking about our audience here. Thousands of SaaS founders, that in that kind of culture of hustling, hard working, crazy hours, many of them now are starting to learn that there needs to be some sense of balance.

00:11:50:14 - 00:12:05:09

Andrew Davies

But many are working crazy hours, bootstrapped or raising early stage finance, and this type of rhythm might be super helpful, but often will be the last thing that they go to because it's yet another thing on the to do list. So how do you walk people through that journey of understanding? This is so vital?

00:12:05:10 - 00:12:25:14

Tanya Alvarez

I think it's more about them being aware of what task I really dream though. So for example, if you had me doing bookkeeping, even if it took me, I don't know, 30 minutes, the rest of the activities, even if the next activities were in like my genius, it's still going to take me longer. I'm Geraint, so once you get that awareness, you're like, Yeah, I can never do bookkeeping again.

00:12:25:14 - 00:12:43:23

Tanya Alvarez

And so if you're thinking about how like if you were to grow your SaaS company, what's a fantastic way of going about it to make sure that your energy, you're protecting your energy and then literally outsourcing the hiring? The best part about this is like things are so cheap now you can get somebody so cheap in another country to help you out, or you can figure out how to get it done faster.

00:12:43:23 - 00:12:55:05

Tanya Alvarez

You just got to figure out and be aware of what's actually taking you that time. So it's kind of like if you're just buying a restaurant, you wouldn't pay like a chef to, I don't know, clean dishes, would you? But entrepreneurs are doing this all day long.

00:12:55:05 - 00:13:08:11

Andrew Davies

So energy management, this is really interesting. Let's make this real. So could you talk through a few of the things that you get loads of energy from you and your flow with and some of the things that really burn you? So bookkeeping might be one of them, but what what are those other things on either end of the spectrum that you've learned about yourself?

00:13:08:12 - 00:13:25:20

Tanya Alvarez

One thing is in the mornings I used to kind of get on calls because I like being on calls. I am an extrovert, I love talking, but I realize that I actually should be saying that during after lunchtime because it doesn't matter how tired I am, I still can get that energy going. So now I'm like, okay, now morning.

00:13:25:20 - 00:13:47:04

Tanya Alvarez

Let me just focus on like the work that, you know, it takes a little bit more thinking, writing, thought, leadership style of sales and marketing and then everything else, the calls and everything else. I book chapter 12. And so I set my schedule like that. And then I also work out most days consistently at 12:00. So I know now when that energy most people are like that right around 12.

00:13:47:04 - 00:14:04:06

Tanya Alvarez

Unless you start off later in the day, your energy just goes down. You know, you might be an outlier. I used to think I was an outlier. I used to work nights and it worked out great. But now you're not just you just go get a we're just just play the game. Big capacity. Play for two weeks, not asking you for like six months, two weeks.

00:14:04:06 - 00:14:06:10

Tanya Alvarez

And that data is going to be invaluable.

00:14:06:11 - 00:14:14:03

Andrew Davies

I love this. And one of the things I know about our community is they love data and I know there'll be lots of Strava athletes on here, even if they're not great runners. They love tracking the data.

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Tanya Alvarez

Oh yeah, Strava is amazing.

00:14:16:03 - 00:14:19:12

Andrew Davies

Totally. So this is kind of a Strava for your energy throughout the week. Is that.

00:14:19:12 - 00:14:25:04

Tanya Alvarez

Fair? Yes. And then realizing little things about it's kind of like seeing the data and optimizing from there.

00:14:25:04 - 00:14:38:05

Andrew Davies

What are the have there been some moments of real revelation for the some of the customers? You know, you've been working with? Some of the people I've been working with. What can you talk about some of those moments of real insight to revelation that have changed how people manage their focus, their productivity?

00:14:38:05 - 00:14:54:23

Tanya Alvarez

So the hardest thing for most entrepreneurs, I've seen it at that stage of like going to 1 million and about 3 million, I would say, is they still believe that they have to do everything. It keeps them pride, it gives them that they're the only ones who can have it. And it's like they're the only ones who can do it.

00:14:54:23 - 00:15:12:07

Tanya Alvarez

And it's just like they want to be the firefighter. They get something out of it. We all do. Everyone's been. The thing is, it's hard to tell somebody, No, you need to do that task. You're choosing to it. But why don't we try to get you to be like the bus backed up. You got hit by a bus, your business support, your family still, and most people would say no.

00:15:12:08 - 00:15:16:20

Tanya Alvarez

So you want to set yourself up that you get to choose activities when you want to go about it.

00:15:16:20 - 00:15:31:19

Andrew Davies

One of the concepts that behind those behind the business you're building and you referred to it in the opening, is accountability told to be a bit more about the importance of accountability? You need to have an accountability with for this to be something that really builds strength into your life. Can it be anybody? Can you be your team?

00:15:31:19 - 00:15:35:20

Andrew Davies

Does it is it helpful if it's people outside of your kind of current purview or industry?

00:15:35:21 - 00:15:55:23

Tanya Alvarez

So I do you have a chat based on how do you know you need different type of people for your accountability? And one is usually your friends and family aren't that kind of. So there's two types of friends and family, the ones that are like a cheering you on and they won't tell you anything negative. That's great, but you still need to get some like you're blindspotting you need to get told the B.S., right?

00:15:56:00 - 00:16:20:00

Tanya Alvarez

And then there's people who are like really terrified and want to protect you. So they're kind of like saying, don't do that. And now you need to be punched, right? So those are two things. And then all your ideas are getting. Yes, yes, yes. That's another thing. You want somebody to push back. And then last one is you want somebody who's playing at the same level, like maybe a gym partner, and all of a sudden you're like convincing them to go every single day.

00:16:20:00 - 00:16:34:04

Tanya Alvarez

That's another job. You don't need that. Well, that needs that. So you want somebody to like. You can say, Hey, here the two days, like if you miss two days or something, you got to jump on after two days. If not, there's a consequence. It's kind of like, I haven't done it. I've heard it. The seven day hard challenge.

00:16:34:04 - 00:16:46:15

Tanya Alvarez

Have you heard that one where it's at old one where it's like it's 75 days and if you miss a day, you have to go start from all the way from the beginning. It's intense. I haven't done it. I'm dying to do it, but I haven't done it with my kids because I can't come to the weekends accountable.

00:16:46:20 - 00:17:03:11

Andrew Davies

See, you're talking about a couple of key kind of criteria of the partners you choose. Does it also matter the number of people? Is there an optimum to firm up five owners up? You know, is that about how many of them we had last it through? Is that about diversity of your viewpoint, your why five and is there an optimum number here?

00:17:03:12 - 00:17:19:02

Tanya Alvarez

I think that if you go a little bit bigger than three, a great five is ideal. If you go to big then what ends up happening is people can hide out and then it becomes something that you have to manage. So if you load is that most communities, only 10% of the people are really participating. Everyone else is just lurkers.

00:17:19:02 - 00:17:37:02

Tanya Alvarez

And why is that bulk wise? Why are people scared of public speaking? Why is that? The number one fear is because sometimes when you're young, something happened. And so that's why people don't want to put themselves out there. So it's a 10% that are always going to be doing that. So it allows you to have each person have their time in that spotlight, to have that conversation and be held accountable.

00:17:37:02 - 00:17:38:21

Tanya Alvarez

So we break it down until 11 minutes.

00:17:38:23 - 00:17:58:07

Andrew Davies

You must have real pattern recognition from the hundreds of people that have gone through this type of program. What do you think all those patterns, what are the patterns of revelation, the patterns of energy burned out, the balance of where people need to draw boundaries? What are the things that you think have really helped people and and the trends you've seen from from learning from these hundreds of experiences so.

00:17:58:07 - 00:18:16:08

Tanya Alvarez

That people who are in that hustle, overachiever stage are the ones who need their accountability on their boundaries. They're the ones you're going to burn out very quickly, and they're the ones who think that they don't need accountability. And that's the hardest part. So it's kind of like you see these entrepreneurs who are working crazy, but their health is just not there.

00:18:16:08 - 00:18:40:20

Tanya Alvarez

And then the first ones who realize it, when something a health scare happens that changes our hold perspective, and then it's the ones who that's the big one. And I'm really big on that one because I've seen literally 25 year olds at 30 year old have heart situations or heart attacks. And I'm just like this early. You know, it's you don't need that's another common thing I've seen is like people get stuck over analysis, procrastination, procrastination and perfectionism.

00:18:40:21 - 00:18:51:13

Tanya Alvarez

I mean, if you just had somebody right there to just kind of like bounce ideas or challenge you to move forward, you could be moving so much faster. So it's that feedback loop that's so important that most people don't get.

00:18:51:14 - 00:19:11:06

Andrew Davies

Procrastination is, I feel a undiscussed topic when it comes to two founders. It's often discussed in other walks of life, but because of the focus of needing to go and build something, I think procrastination shows up in other areas. And often as you picked up and you mentioned earlier, it's often doing tasks you shouldn't be doing that become your procrastination tasks because you do want to focus on.

00:19:11:06 - 00:19:16:13

Andrew Davies

The main thing is affairs. That what you've seen in your experience and how else is procrastination showed up in those types?

00:19:16:15 - 00:19:24:00

Tanya Alvarez

They're like keeping busy. So it's like, Hey, I'm doing a moving, you know, it's ongoing and but yeah, they're procrastinating. They're not doing that big thing.

00:19:24:01 - 00:19:40:01

Andrew Davies

I would love to get your wisdom then on prioritization. So everyone listen to this call has got enough work today to fill up seven or eight days of work. They've got way too much to do. How do you think and how do you advise founders to think about prioritization, What's really important and what can really be left behind?

00:19:40:02 - 00:19:56:09

Tanya Alvarez

So I have to say, I was guilty of this before where I had different places where I would document my ideas. So it would be on my phone. It would be like on a notepad or would be like everywhere. The one thing you want to do is actually put it in one place. It doesn't. I don't care what you use, but just put it in one place.

00:19:56:09 - 00:20:14:15

Tanya Alvarez

And then from there you start analyzing like, what is it that you prioritize it based on? What is outcome you want, What are the resource is it would take and what is the impact it's going to have. And then you score it. However, you can add more variables to it. I'm making more simple and based on that you have a formula on what to prioritize things.

00:20:14:15 - 00:20:34:03

Tanya Alvarez

So whatever that is for you. Some people use a rice method, some people use I don't like the Eisenhower matrix because like a lot of people get confused with the urgent, important and then you move that up. So you got to just think about what are the the variables you want to use and you put that through like anything you have to do, you put it through that formula and prioritize it.

00:20:34:04 - 00:20:51:10

Andrew Davies

I'm thinking of all of the the founders. Listen to this as I'm listening to it now. What are your strong pieces of advice from, you know, these hundreds of hours worth of listening to people from hundreds of interactions of people going through this process of accountability of, you know, probably few thousands of days worth of doing the wrap method?

00:20:51:10 - 00:20:55:14

Andrew Davies

What should people be taking away from this? What are the things that they should build into their daily rhythms?

00:20:55:14 - 00:21:24:18

Tanya Alvarez

Now one is figure out place are people where you have a feedback loop. The faster you have feedback loop, the faster they get moving to what you want to get achieved. Next Document Data. Do you go to any you guys are in? SaaS data is amazing. Utilize it for yourself so you can optimize. And then also this is a great challenge Galway to a developing country that doesn't have really good internet connection for two weeks and then use a Parkinson's law or like vacation method, which is kind of like nursing.

00:21:24:18 - 00:21:37:21

Tanya Alvarez

You get so much done right before your vacation. We use that method. So if you have a team, it's like, okay, now you have to trust your team. They have an emergency, happens, they can handle it, or you have to figure out what are the things that are missing that you need to get done right before the vacation.

00:21:37:21 - 00:21:53:11

Tanya Alvarez

That's going to be a game changer. So not only does it help you build leaders, it helps you be more effective with your time. It helps you see where some of the missing spots are, like the things that you need to like, work on in your business. But it also gives you that two weeks of peace in mind so you become more creative.

00:21:53:11 - 00:22:06:00

Tanya Alvarez

You can think differently, right? You're not. Because if you're thinking constantly a business, sometimes when you're walking around or in nature, it just brings other ideas. If everyone could do that just once a year, I would challenge you once a quarter. Still, meetings will happen.

00:22:06:00 - 00:22:13:09

Andrew Davies

Why don't you just reintroduce us to two OTAs? Why? It would make sense what the score books is about, how they get involved. But they go.

00:22:13:10 - 00:22:30:20

Tanya Alvarez

What we do is we have them go through process where we audit their business so we know exactly where they are. And then from there they have weekly Zoom calls and then we have a software where they submit their rap and their finances and stop. And so we're able to see what they're improving on and uncover blind spots for them.

00:22:30:20 - 00:22:50:14

Tanya Alvarez

And then we help them. You know, it's all about you want to achieve more, do it with others just in anything in life, really, even parenting. That's why people are struggling with parenting out honestly. Like now it's like we we're are parents or is our family or is that village now It's just like you trying to figure it out and have resources, nannies, daycare, whatever it is to make it all happen before with a built in.

00:22:50:14 - 00:23:05:15

Andrew Davies

Village, you're making pathways back to allowing people to build their village so they can build these rhythms into their life for work, for family, for parenting. It's been great to chat it through. Is there any final thoughts you've got for the audience? You know, we've got here and I think you want to leave behind before we close this up, challenge yourself.

00:23:05:17 - 00:23:13:02

Tanya Alvarez

Start figuring out what year the data that you have. Look at the norm and then figure out how can I optimize and challenge myself even more. Keep reflecting.

00:23:13:02 - 00:23:21:02

Andrew Davies

Thank you so much for your time today. I love her about the business. Love. Heroism has made a difference in your life. I'll be making a couple of those out with a try this wrap thing for a while. I'll let you know how it goes.

00:23:21:02 - 00:23:37:13

Ben Hillman

Excellent shoutout to Tanya for being on the show. Make sure to give Protect the Hustle a five star review and tell us what lesson from today's episode was your favorite. Thanks for listening. This is Protect the Hustle, a podcast from Paddle Studios dedicated to helping you build better SaaS.